When the Playbook Breaks: Erica Rivera on Rebuilding Your Career After a Layoff

Joanne Skiles[00:00]
Hi everybody, welcome back to Her Career Unplugged. I'm Joanne, along with my co-host Vimala, and today we're having a conversation that I think everyone, everyone who's listening has either lived through this or quietly is sitting inside right now. Is what happens when you do everything right? You got the degrees, you got the promotions, you have wonderful performance reviews, and that

Joanne Skiles[00:27]
career that you

Joanne Skiles[00:28]
have built no longer feels like yours. Because maybe there's a layoff. Maybe the company has changed. Maybe you have changed because we do change in life. And suddenly you're at this point

Joanne Skiles[00:43]
where you're asking if I'm not this title, if I'm not manager, VP, whatever, or this team,

Joanne Skiles[00:52]
Or this version of success that I thought was success. Who am I? So our guest today is Erica Rivera. she sat on both sides of that question. She spent years reading resumes inside Google and Indeed, she knows exactly how that machine reads you. Then her own household got hit with three layoff emails in two and a half years, and she rebuilt from her kitchen table.

Joanne Skiles[01:20]
Moved her family abroad and turned everything she knows about how careers actually work into a coaching practice for senior high-earning women navigating the disruption. And I think this is really important because the point of this show is building your own career playbook. So, with all that said, Erica, welcome to Her Career Unplugged.

Vimala Pydi[01:43]
So that's the end.

Erica Rivera[01:43]
Hello.

Erica Rivera[01:44]
Thank you all for having me. This is amazing. I am so excited to have this conversation with y'all.

Joanne Skiles[01:50]
Awesome. I'm I'm very excited to have this. I'm going to hand you over to Vimala, who is going to ask you a bunch of questions.

Vimala Pydi[01:58]
Thank you, Joanne, and welcome to Her Career Unplugged, Wow, what a great way to kind of look at this episode. We have been working on creating a career playbook for all listeners. This is a point where everything that you build stops working. When your playbook stops working, what do you do? So really excited to have you on the show and kind of like go through your journey. Welcome, Erica. All

Erica Rivera[02:24]
Yeah.

Vimala Pydi[02:25]
right, if you're ready, let's dig into it.

Erica Rivera[02:29]
Let's do it. I'm excited. Let's go.

Vimala Pydi[02:31]
so when we were talking, when we started talking, one of the ideas that I was really curious is you spent years inside Google and Indeed, you literally helped writing the paper for how people get tired. Then you shared with us in November, 2023, I guess, when number 2023 hits, you saw an email you were in a room.

Vimala Pydi[02:55]
where your name was on the layoff list. Talk to us about that moment when the very system you understood inside and outside stopped working for you. What's that moment of playbook when it broke?

Erica Rivera[03:11]
Yeah, that twenty twenty three was a an eye-opening year, especially in tech and specifically, you know, big tech was hit with a lot of layoffs. So earlier in that year in January, I saw 10,000 or maybe it was twelve thousand of my people, right? That across Google, a lot of people that I work closely with that had been impacted by layoffs. So that was an eye-opening moment for me because I'm like, ooh, like

Vimala Pydi[03:36]
Yeah.

Erica Rivera[03:37]
Am you know, like, am I safe? Because I prior to this, I had always been in companies and stayed and you know, I left or I left on my own choice. But that really for me was the moment where I was like, what is really going to happen? And there was, you know, some uncertainty. But then, you know, several months had passed and I had always been high ratings, so exceeding expectations. I was involved in a lot of different areas on like ERG, so employee resource groups. I was doing my own role. So very

Erica Rivera[04:05]
Heavily involved in the Google community. But when that email to your point came through and I received that, I was in shock. I I read the email and I'm like, surely they this is I'm not reading this correctly. Like, surely this is not what I did not read. And I actually handed it to my husband, like, can you read this and tell me what this says? And he's like, babe.

Erica Rivera[04:33]
you no longer work for the company. And I in that moment I had all of the emotions. I was like shocked. I was angry. I was confused. I I was hurt. I felt betrayed. You know, because this was what I thought for me was the long game, that or that was the plan at least. and so that was in that very moment was what I was feeling because I had worked so hard, you know, to get to that point.

Erica Rivera[04:59]
And then I was even thinking, like, where would I even want to go next? Because Google had always been for me like this is what I was aiming for. And I reached it and was very proud of that achievement. And so there was just all of that circling. and then of course having a family and you know being a mom and have and like the bills and all of these things, all in that moment that I was kind of like trying to navigate and sort through. and it just

Erica Rivera[05:26]
Honestly was probably not my proudest moment just because I I think I ended up getting down on like my hands and knees and I started crying, if I'm just being very honest. So that that was my my moment of truth.

Vimala Pydi[05:39]
I knew, and especially I've been in this career 24 hours plus. And in the beginning of my career, when I got hit by layoffs the first time there was some EQ to it. Like the HR would come down. There would be people coming in person and talking to you. I see the shift now, like pretty much getting an email about the layoff is a different spectrum. It's hard.

Vimala Pydi[06:04]
There is nothing personal about it. You just get an email and you're like chopped off like in

Erica Rivera[06:09]
Yeah.

Vimala Pydi[06:10]
an instant second. I can totally, totally kind of, can feel how your state would have been at that point. Yeah.

Erica Rivera[06:20]
Yeah. Yeah. And it it

Erica Rivera[06:22]
was like and right before that, not too long, my husband had experienced his own

Erica Rivera[06:29]
you know, layoff and like so it's just a there's a layoff, then it's like this happened to me and then you know, we're trying to rebound. And so there's just you know, when you think you're doing all of the right things, you know, and

Vimala Pydi[06:39]
Right.

Erica Rivera[06:39]
you're taught, you go to school, you get the degree, you find the career path, you climb the ladder, you know, and you you reach for those promotions and you continuously focus on growth, right? And and doing the best that you can and it's all gonna be okay. You know, you're you know, as long as you do those things, you're okay. And then something like that happens.

Erica Rivera[06:57]
happens, I think there's definitely a shock there, you know, factor to it. It's like a a very much a a wake up call.

Vimala Pydi[07:03]
Yeah, actually, that's going to be my second one, second kind of like into the questions on you might have learned and come out strong. You did come out strong from these layoffs and lot of learnings within the journey. So when you coach women, they follow the playbook, To the letter, top schools, as you said, strong track records, loyalty to their companies, working zillion hours.

Vimala Pydi[07:30]
just doing everything right and also reaching their goal. And as you said or shared, there are some pivots that happens, like which is not in our control. When you go through this, so what's actually happening when all these steps kind of stops working, right? Like you reach your goal and it just stopped working. Where are they? Where is this playbook failing?

Vimala Pydi[07:58]
How do you pivot from all the steps that you have gone through, right? Like maybe from your learning or from your coaching, can you share like tidbits on that?

Erica Rivera[08:08]
Yeah, I will say for myself, but also in a lot of women that I've coached.

Erica Rivera[08:13]
the biggest thing that I've seen personally is that there's this sense of like failure. Like I it's me, I'm the problem. I did something wrong. and internalizing to what I think you said earlier was like, hey, it's no no hard feelings, right? It's just like it was a a business decision and and you were impacted by an unfortunate business decision. But there's a lot of internalizing of what has happened to them, and it becomes like I've done something wrong. And think this kind

Erica Rivera[08:42]
of stems from us as as women and you know where a lot of times we're having to work twice as hard to really show up and you know to excel and to be seen in rooms and and that part of it when

Erica Rivera[08:56]
you kind of combine those factors and you know that you've taken all the steps that you were told to take, you you've achieved the the goals, you've gotten the ratings, and then all of sudden your name comes on the list. Well, then there's that it must be something I did, versus it taking that narrative and taking a step back.

Erica Rivera[09:15]
which you know it takes time to do because you're coming from a place of being hurt. you know, for some people, it's hey, I failed, or it's the be maybe feeling betrayed, like all of these emotions and trying to sort through what is the actual truth of what happened versus the story that you're telling yourself. And a lot of times the stories that we as women tell ourselves is that it's us that we're the problem. And so then that creates this ecosystem of

Erica Rivera[09:41]
you know, kind of in this vacuum of, well, how do I get out of this? You know, and I feel like I'm suffocating. And that's where I I find women when they come to me is they're in that that state. And so the very first thing that we focus on really is being able to separate what is the the actual truth of what happened in what is the story that you're telling yourself and how do we start to reshape that narrative.

Vimala Pydi[10:05]
Yeah, that's great. Like the identity trap, right? Like we do feel like it might have been me that might have caused to be part of this layoff. And also, when you kind of do everything right, just losing your job is very emotional too, right? Like your household is kind of like...

Vimala Pydi[10:27]
maybe banking on you to have that paycheck coming in. There's so many things that goes on. It's not just the job. So how do you untangle that with a woman? How do you help them separate it? Like you do go through the story that they're telling themselves, but is there anything specific that you do as you're coaching them to be able to separate that from what actually happened?

Vimala Pydi[10:54]
Is there any like a prescriptive way to do that, which may help our listeners if you if you are going through that, we need to remind ourselves it's not us. We all know that it's not us, but it's hard to keep us away from that.

Erica Rivera[11:09]
And

Erica Rivera[11:10]
One of the things that I personally love to do with women is I actually sit down with them and what I do is call the career story walkthrough. So we talk about all basically because we we are so close to our work, sometimes it's hard for us to remember all the things you know that we've done and to to remember like, hey, we are who we say we are. so we go through this exercise where I will have them kind of walk me through their career. We talk about the milestones, the achievements, and like really give them that evidence that they need. so pouring evidence into

Erica Rivera[11:39]
themselves for them to see, like, okay, I know, right? I'm feeling this way. But it actually boosts and lifts, you know, their confidence when they're reminded of truly all of what it is that they have been able to do and to achieve the value that they have. And so to actually be able to talk about that and to see that tends to be that like starting point that helps them to then take the next steps and allow them to start, you know, making those positive shifts so they can get to ultimately what is.

Erica Rivera[12:08]
their next chapter.

Vimala Pydi[12:10]
Love it. Yeah, the data points, just looking at the data that it's not just them. And if it's part of like a huge number, just like trying to remind ourselves that it's a business decision, as you said before, I think that would definitely help women in kind of like reshaping their thinking.

Vimala Pydi[12:32]
The other question I have, like as I said, we were stressing more on the career strategy and the playbooks within this episode, within this podcast. So what happens when women start to kind of pivot and go into this new step of their life?

Vimala Pydi[12:54]
Maybe with your personal journey or any story that you have, helping other women, how do you help rewrite the story, narrative? Maybe a new playbook because we're so used to kind of like having the mental model on how to work. I feel like if we don't have that, we just go blind and we may be missing on opportunities just to be vigilant on how things work.

Vimala Pydi[13:18]
Playbook is the way that we have been teaching through this podcast. But if you have to restart that, do you have any stories on how you do that? I know you have great stories on how you pivoted from where you were. So just kind of looking into that.

Erica Rivera[13:35]
Absolutely. Yeah. I will say on a personal level, you know, for me, I I kind of did that same like career story walkthrough myself and I I took inventory. so one of things is taking inventory and looking at your own kind of experience and your background. And then now just what I I typically tell people is like, hey, we're in a completely different time, right? And so there's a lot of shifting that has happened, especially I would say in the last maybe since 2022, like with AI.

Erica Rivera[14:04]
And the economy shifting and all these things happening. So I'd like to have in my situation personally, you know, I was trying to think about well, you know, how do I look at my career differently than I have historically? You know, I've done all of the things. I went through this playbook and I still, you know, got impacted by a layoff. Well, what would it look like for me to look at my story differently, to look take inventory of my skills and my experience.

Erica Rivera[14:33]
experience and to see how I could maybe take that somewhere else. And I was and I was very open. So I think staying open is is a big part of it of, well, that might mean maybe yes it is going to another company in a similar role, but you know, being really intentional, right, about what you choose next for yourself. Or maybe it becomes, well, maybe I do decide there's this thing that I've been wanting to do that I kind of been putting on the back burner. But now I'm I'm at this crossroads, well then maybe now's the time for me to to explore what would that look like.

Erica Rivera[15:03]
for me to do you know something that I've always wanted to do and so like in my case for example what that looked like was I had already been thinking about what it would look like to take my career more so into the coaching consulting space and so I was like well I'm laid off I was if I'm gonna be very honest I was applying to jobs and I was getting rejected so I'm like well what do I have to lose

Joanne Skiles[15:31]
Mm.

Erica Rivera[15:31]
Maybe I I put all of my energy into this and let's just say, let's burn it all down, this playbook that we had, and let's just try a different way. And so I started, and for me it started by creating content. So I created content online and so you know, got some visibility there. I s I had already been coaching internally. I was an internal career coach at Google and at Indeed. and I did some coaching like on the side. So it was something I was already doing, but pouring like my full energy into hey, I

Erica Rivera[16:00]
this is my identity now.

Erica Rivera[16:02]
and so that for me became where I decided to invest you know my time and energy because one of the longer term goals that I had was to move abroad. But when I was at Google,

Vimala Pydi[16:11]
Okay.

Erica Rivera[16:13]
I had tried exploring the route of transferring to a different team and moving abroad, and that never came to fruition because it just wasn't something that that Google did frequently, like there had to be a strong business case around it. so I'm like, well, I still have this goal of wanting to move abroad.

Erica Rivera[16:31]
I've had this goal of like wanting to start coaching, consulting, and like really pouring. So what would it look like? I'm getting rejected anyways. So what would it look like if I actually poured my energy into this?

Vimala Pydi[16:43]
Ready.

Erica Rivera[16:43]
and put, you know, the whole job application and stuff to the side. So I sat down and did the financial planning and and then, you know, went for it. And so and here we are, you know, and what two and a half years later. I I was able to move my family abroad. You know, I am coaching, you know, women.

Erica Rivera[16:59]
From all walks of life and it's it's so fulfilling and rewarding. and you know, there's days where I I still, you know, think about like, is this gonna be the end all be all? And this is, you know, where my next my career is for the next 20 years. I don't know, but

Erica Rivera[17:15]
I think if anything, for me, it's allowed me to be more open about what's possible because I I I'm I was kind of well, I was forced into it. You know, I wasn't it wasn't like it was like I'm gonna plan to do this, I'm gonna leave the company and do you know, I was kind of forced into the decision and I did it and leaned in scared and did it and you know, here we are. And so that's where with women now that I work with, that's one of the things that we look at is like, well, what would it look like for you to maybe explore things that you have

Erica Rivera[17:45]
I didn't think were possible for anymore. Because sometimes we just don't know. We don't

Erica Rivera[17:51]
know. And then help them to kind of sort through like what have

Erica Rivera[17:55]
been things of interest or areas that they wanted to explore or things that they've been tr they've tried and maybe didn't work out and maybe they tried again. and we start to kind of build out a roadmap. So that's what I do now with women. But my own personal story was like the layoff happened, wasn't getting traction. I was like, well, what if I go for what I actually had been talking about for a while and here we are.

Joanne Skiles[18:15]
Yeah. But

Joanne Skiles[18:16]
it but I love that because had some lemons happen and you made lemonade out of it, right? You took a pivot.

Erica Rivera[18:21]
There we

Joanne Skiles[18:22]
A lot of things that hold us back are I mean, if we think about this in a positive light, which we we can do with tw you know, hindsight being twenty twenty, right? Is like is things that held back from doing going abroad that is like the security blanket of having the job at Google, right?

Joanne Skiles[18:39]
But as soon as that was taken away, what was holding you back, right? It was really yourself.

Erica Rivera[18:44]
There you go.

Joanne Skiles[18:45]
And and so you could make the pivot. You can say, okay, everything that I have been doing, actually, that's not I can make a pivot. I can change the the rules. I can look at what it is that I wanted to do with my career. And now that you know you're like, hey, am I gonna do this for the next 20 years? I don't really know. But I've already done the pivot once. So who's to say that I can't do it again? So I really

Erica Rivera[19:05]
Yeah. Yeah.

Joanne Skiles[19:07]
like that. It's the

Joanne Skiles[19:08]
You are resilient, you can overcome something, be it a layoff, be it that something has happened in your life that I mean things happen, things change, we can overcome.

Erica Rivera[19:22]
Yeah.

Joanne Skiles[19:22]
Almost feel like Helen Reddy here. I am woman, okay?

Erica Rivera[19:25]
I don't want yes.

Vimala Pydi[19:26]
Yeah, and what I liked about your story Erica is like you took an inventory of what you're good at, right? That's you you shared that you were already coaching doing career coaching in your current role. So you kind of knew that was your strength already and you took an inventory of what you had. You tried the known trade. It didn't work out. You kind of knew your next step would be maybe

Vimala Pydi[19:54]
the career coaching, was on the back burner, you just brought it friend forward and kind of like put your energy. So you really got a clarity, but you had different steps that you were following to see if that works out, go to the next one. This works out, go to the next one, right? Like so that's a great one to remember for all of us as well.

Erica Rivera[20:14]
Yeah.

Erica Rivera[20:15]
And I think having support too, because I I had a few people that were

Erica Rivera[20:20]
really my rocks during kind of a really low period. So that's another thing is like if you have a few people that can just kind of wrap their arms around you, you know, while you're navigating the the unknown, the uncertainty, the emotions, the the roller coaster that is kind of the the the shift of like you know I'm I'm trying to change the way I see my world. I think that is very important too.

Vimala Pydi[20:43]
Thank you for bringing, I think that's something we never spoke on these episodes on having that support system, having your unique village. We did talk about community, but really kneeling down and having the core system of support is important as well, which helps like it's pretty much a balanced way to navigate your career.

Erica Rivera[21:05]
Yeah, absolutely.

Erica Rivera[21:06]
Absolutely. And I I like I know I've I've worked with some women that you know, they they maybe don't have or they don't believe right, they they have

Erica Rivera[21:14]
support a support system or or people right that they can trust and sometimes that that doesn't that's the reality right of and we're all in our different own kind of lane in our own experience but that may then be an opportunity to explore then to your point that community aspect of getting involved in you know a community for women or or something that you're interested in like I had somebody who she's very creative in the arts and so her backgrounds in tech but she

Erica Rivera[21:41]
She's like, I've always wanted to she has these like little vegetable cards that she sells that they're so cute and they have these little sayings on them. And she's like, I've always wanted to sell these cards. And I'm like, Well, why can't you? And so she there's this like local

Erica Rivera[21:57]
market that that goes on in her area. And she met this woman who had like a stand and they hit it off. And then the woman invited her to like work with her in the stand. And then she's like, well, why don't you sell some of your cards here? and then that inspired her to the point where then she went to these local stores and was like, hey, I want to bring my cards into your stores. And now she has eight stores in her local area in Colorado that have her cards that she creates that she loves, you know, that has wanted to do for years.

Erica Rivera[22:27]
but was so in the hustle and grind of her career in tech that she didn't do it. But after her layoff for her, and she was like kind of at rock bottom, I'm just like, well, well, what would happen if you tried? And then she, you know, came, became the snowball of like these little steps that she took that led to her now, you know, being in the space where she's really thriving in that creative side that she, you know, had been missing out on for a long time.

Vimala Pydi[22:53]
Awesome. That's a great story and how you can have that snowball or like I always call it as a butterfly effect to you where like one good deed kind of like goes and builds on top of it. So yeah, thank you so much for sharing that.

Joanne Skiles[23:07]
I I love it also because

Joanne Skiles[23:09]
it is something that I I I have caught myself saying to others a lot is I'm like, the worst thing someone can say to you is no. I'm

Erica Rivera[23:18]
Yeah, exactly.

Joanne Skiles[23:19]
like, you know, at the end of the day, what

Vimala Pydi[23:20]
Yes.

Joanne Skiles[23:21]
the I know rejection hurts, but you know, that's the worst that can happen. So I mean I have

Erica Rivera[23:27]
Yeah.

Joanne Skiles[23:28]
to remind myself of that too, though, as well. Like the worst thing that can happen is someone says no. I

Vimala Pydi[23:32]
this statement.

Joanne Skiles[23:34]
Hidden behind this screen is all my crafting. I have to hide it because

Erica Rivera[23:38]
Yeah.

Joanne Skiles[23:38]
it's a disaster. But you know, I mean that's the thing. Like

Erica Rivera[23:41]
Yeah, absolutely.

Joanne Skiles[23:42]
I love it. Worst thing is if I make something and someone doesn't like it, they they say no.

Erica Rivera[23:48]
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. But I think to your point that fear of rejection is I I don't know, I I feel like there's a a lot of us that, you know, we really internalize that, that fear. And so

Joanne Skiles[23:58]
We didn't.

Erica Rivera[23:59]
that I think is also a step in because I even think about, you know, if you're applying for jobs, I don't know about you, but for me, how many times have I shied away from applying to a job because I I self-eliminated because of the fear of rejection, right? Things like that, you know.

Joanne Skiles[24:13]
e even

Joanne Skiles[24:15]
even worse, younger in my like when I was younger in my career, I shied away from doing actual interviews that I was invited to do because I was afraid of being rejected. Like I have a very vivid memory of like being invited to fly for I've done it since, but fly to like Microsoft. So this is way longer when they were flying people out. And I was like, no, I withdraw because I was afraid of being told that I wouldn't get the Microsoft job.

Joanne Skiles[24:42]
And that's just crazy. Now I've gone through years of rejection therapy. so that's what the that's what the job market

Vimala Pydi[24:46]
Thank you.

Erica Rivera[24:47]
Okay.

Joanne Skiles[24:49]
is, rejection therapy. So but

Erica Rivera[24:51]
my gosh.

Joanne Skiles[24:51]
but I mean that's the yeah.

Vimala Pydi[24:52]
But that is a true story. I plus

Vimala Pydi[24:54]
one on it. did with the fear of rejection, I didn't go to a few job interviews as well. Especially if they are out of state, right? Like I'm going all the way. I didn't know if I will get selected.

Joanne Skiles[25:07]
It was very yeah.

Joanne Skiles[25:09]
It was very wrong, like my twenty, my young 20-year-old mind, like 20, what, 22 or whatever I was, where I'm just like, I'm gonna fly all the way there and they're just gonna tell me no. So why am I doing this? And

Vimala Pydi[25:20]
Yeah.

Joanne Skiles[25:21]
it's wrong. And it's wrong. Don't listen to that. That is like a little

Vimala Pydi[25:23]
is wrong.

Joanne Skiles[25:24]
mini demon in you. Do not listen to it.

Vimala Pydi[25:26]
Yes, totally

Vimala Pydi[25:27]
agree. Yes. Yeah, yeah, those are like few things I want our listeners to kind of double click on. Just go if you get invited to an interview, just go. And don't shy away from pursuing your dreams as well with what Erica shared us, a story with us. Erica, my next, like as you were talking about creating content, pivoting into being a career coach.

Vimala Pydi[25:52]
My next

Erica Rivera[25:52]
Yeah.

Vimala Pydi[25:52]
question is, what are the first real moves? Like, say if I went into or venturing a new opportunity or new career altogether, rebuilding my playbook, I have a clarity on what I want to do. But how do you, like as you're coaching this woman, what are the first of the first real moves to rebuild visibility and leverage? Right? It's

Erica Rivera[26:14]
Yeah.

Vimala Pydi[26:14]
a new landscape. So what do you, what's your experience with that?

Erica Rivera[26:19]
Yeah,

Erica Rivera[26:20]
that's a a really good question because you know, we live now in a day and age where visibility matters and a lot of that visibility is online. you know, we we choose our our method in terms of what you know channel maybe we're comfortable with, but

Erica Rivera[26:36]
digital, you know, that is how we consume a lot of information. And so you know, some people prefer more of that in-person connection. And so maybe locally there are, you know, communities and groups that you partake in, and that becomes the way that you connect to the world and and start to shift your career by joining communities that align with where you're going next. But like

Erica Rivera[26:59]
For myself, one of the things that I wanted to be very intentional on specifically and what I now coach women on is getting comfortable with the uncomfortable of of being seen, you know, because

Erica Rivera[27:10]
It's just the the way the world works. And so if we are we have these goals and we want to reach, well, we can't reach these goals if nobody knows us, if nobody hears us, if nobody sees us. And so what that has looked like in my own personal story and then with women, so with for myself, I started posting content on Instagram, TikTok, and just creating videos and and that became the way that people started to find me. And once I saw, like, I'm like, this.

Erica Rivera[27:40]
Works like people resonated with my content, people reached out to me for advice. I had brands that wanted to work with me. And once I saw that like me being visible was resulting in opportunities, I leaned into that more. and so that has been for me a really big eye-opening learning because I was very much of the mentality of like you put your head down, right? You work hard, your work is gonna speak for itself. No, like you, I'm a firm believer.

Erica Rivera[28:08]
Believer, you have to build your own brand and figure out like, how do you want the world to see you? And you get to shape that story on, you know, how you want the world to see you. And then taking the steps because a lot of women that I specifically work with are not comfortable with being on camera or even posting, like, say if it's on LinkedIn, for example, but finding a way to create a plan of action where that person can kind of ease into these steps.

Erica Rivera[28:35]
That they take that give them that snowball of momentum to where they start to reach for these bigger kind of opportunities and are less afraid of that visibility is a big area that I focus on with women. So that tends to look like: well, let's start optimizing your LinkedIn profile because we know LinkedIn, the reality is that LinkedIn is still a prevalent channel for connection networking opportunities.

Erica Rivera[29:04]
so let's optimize your profile for your brand. Like when people come to your profile, what do you want them to know about you? What are the things you want people to or like what do you want to be known for? And and those are the things that you should be talking about. So maybe you post once a week and you start with something like that, or once every other week and you build up. And then you maybe build up to you try a video, you know, and and if you're not comfortable with being visible on video, well maybe do like a

Erica Rivera[29:32]
voiceover where you have like a screen share and you're doing something and you're you're you know kind of behind the scenes like finding a way to create a strategy for the individual that works for them allowing them to build that confidence to kind of remove the barriers of the fear of being seen.

Vimala Pydi[29:48]
Awesome. Yeah, I love it. And one thing I would add on is with AI, there's a lot of content people were just throwing using AI. feel like having that authentic content, but use AI to refine it would

Erica Rivera[30:04]
Yeah.

Vimala Pydi[30:04]
be a way to really build the trust with your content. That's something I've been seeing a lot of lately, so just having that authenticity.

Vimala Pydi[30:15]
put your words and then refine if you want to use AI, refine it with AI. So yeah, thank you for sharing that story, building the visibility through digital platforms is a great way to do that. So this kind of covers everything with this. This is our next fun part. We'll have a segue into rapid fire. Hand it over to Joanne to kind of take it away.

Joanne Skiles[30:40]
All right. So we're gonna close with rapid fire. This is the part where, you know, we get unplugged. so the idea is I'm gonna ask you some questions, short answers, unless you can't hold back and you have to just go into a rant. I'll never judge. I always go into a rant.

Erica Rivera[30:55]
Yeah.

Joanne Skiles[30:57]
that being said, first question. Worst career advice women keep getting.

Erica Rivera[31:03]
there's a lot out there. I would probably say

Erica Rivera[31:06]
It the worst thing that I probably heard is for women to j like just make the jump. It's I think that's terrible advice. there's so many layers to a career and judging someone because they're maybe a a afraid or like there's a barrier for them to make a move, I think that's terrible, terrible, terrible advice. And when I hear people say that I'm like

Erica Rivera[31:30]
It's like the nails on the chalkboard. So yeah.

Joanne Skiles[31:33]
I get it. I get it. I I feel like I'm always the person who's always like, it depends. but it does.

Erica Rivera[31:38]
Yeah.

Joanne Skiles[31:40]
I think we know the answer for this one, but LinkedIn, powerful tool or performance track.

Erica Rivera[31:46]
It's a I believe it's a powerful tool. For as much as it made me to say it, because I was very anti LinkedIn for a long time, but I've seen the power of LinkedIn and I do believe it's a powerful tool.

Joanne Skiles[31:57]
Yes, yes. So it's a good tool. I within within moments. All right. First thing you tell a woman on day one of a job search after the disruption.

Erica Rivera[32:09]
Mm. I tell her to give herself grace. That's a big one. and for her to remind herself that she's gonna need to give herself con consistent reminders of what it is that she's been able to do in her career to help offset the inevitable, which is you know, rejection that's gonna happen because we all face rejection. but it's gonna be it's so important to pour into yourself. That's the the biggest thing that I tell women on day one.

Joanne Skiles[32:35]
Stay in your lane or burn down the lane.

Vimala Pydi[32:39]
I love this part.

Erica Rivera[32:39]
Man, yeah,

Erica Rivera[32:41]
I'm a burn it down at you know, I I've

Erica Rivera[32:44]
done the whole stay in the lane. I've seen women do the stay in the lane and at the I'm

Erica Rivera[32:48]
just like, if you would have asked me this question five years ago, I would have probably said stay in the lane, but now I'm like, burn it all down. Okay. We're gone.

Joanne Skiles[32:55]
I I'm very

Joanne Skiles[32:56]
happy. I'm like, I'm like, I'm bird down the lane. And you know, if the person

Erica Rivera[32:59]
Yeah.

Joanne Skiles[33:00]
who told me to stay in the lane gets caught in the fire, well.

Erica Rivera[33:03]
Ha ha ha.

Joanne Skiles[33:06]
Confidence built or borrowed?

Erica Rivera[33:09]
Ooh, this is good. I

Erica Rivera[33:12]
I think it's borrowed until it's built. Like you you borrow the confidence and then you start to actually believe it, right? And you build your the confidence. So

Joanne Skiles[33:20]
Yes. And I like that. I want I want to double click on that so that

Vimala Pydi[33:22]
like this, yeah.

Joanne Skiles[33:23]
everybody hears that. You can borrow the confidence. You might feel a little inauthentic at that moment and you might not feel that it's real, but that's okay because it will become real. It's kind of like the fake it till you make it joke, right?

Erica Rivera[33:37]
Yeah. Well

Erica Rivera[33:38]
and it's you're like neuroscience, you're you're actually rewiring right your neural pathways and that takes time to rewire that new story. So yeah, I am a

Joanne Skiles[33:45]
Yeah.

Erica Rivera[33:47]
firm believer, borrow, but you you do build it and you eventually you actually start to believe, you know, that narrative.

Joanne Skiles[33:52]
Yeah. Just

Joanne Skiles[33:53]
remember to, you know, look back and be like, I did got I did have it. I ha I do got this. Yeah.

Erica Rivera[33:57]
Yeah. Yeah.

Joanne Skiles[33:59]
One thing on your resume that Google would never have seen the value of.

Erica Rivera[34:05]
You know, they didn't care about my hospitality background at all. The only thing they cared about was my Indeed recruiting experience. And that was that was what they they emphasized, and that was it. And

Joanne Skiles[34:19]
Interesting.

Erica Rivera[34:20]
I was proud of my restaurant background. I was like, I built my whole career and they were just like, no, we just want to know about Indeed. We don't want to know about anything else. I'm like, okay, that's fine.

Joanne Skiles[34:29]
Yeah.

Joanne Skiles[34:31]
All right, last question. The career myth you wish would die.

Erica Rivera[34:35]
There's a couple, but I one of the things is res in resume writing, man. I the whole one page versus two page resumes, the whole word versus PDF, the whole columns, no columns, the whole like all of this resume myth, I'm like, I'm gonna need y'all to stop because I just like some of this stuff I hear, I'm like, no, you have people terrified to write a resume.

Joanne Skiles[35:01]
What about the quarter? What about what

Joanne Skiles[35:03]
about the quarter on the resume? Have you heard that one?

Erica Rivera[35:06]
The court? No.

Joanne Skiles[35:07]
You use the quarter and then that determines like the that's all the recruiter skims, so you gotta make sure all the info for like that job fits within the quarter. No? Okay.

Erica Rivera[35:16]
Whoa. What yeah.

Erica Rivera[35:18]
I thought there's so much out there. I'm just

Vimala Pydi[35:18]
Yeah.

Erica Rivera[35:21]
like I I cannot and I sometimes I'm I'm that that person that I'll sit and like comment on on things because I'm just like no this is you guys leave these people alone. They're just trying to find job.

Vimala Pydi[35:33]
Love that.

Joanne Skiles[35:33]
I mean there

Joanne Skiles[35:34]
has been, I will say, as a hiring manager, there has been times where I've opened up a resume and went, whoa, you guys should have read some of those myths. well it's like 10 pages essay, 10 pages an essay,

Vimala Pydi[35:42]
Especially if it's 10 pages long and someone's doing the research.

Erica Rivera[35:42]
Fair.

Joanne Skiles[35:49]
paragraphs, like I'm like, there's no bullet points? What? So

Joanne Skiles[35:57]
But I love it. I do like it. I think there's

Vimala Pydi[35:59]
Yes.

Joanne Skiles[35:59]
so much conflicting information around resumes that like and besides half the time the you know, AI scanning it anyway, so

Erica Rivera[36:08]
Well and then it's also

Vimala Pydi[36:08]
Good.

Erica Rivera[36:09]
dependent on the field, your industry. Like there there's variables there, right? That it can't just be a one size fits all and

Joanne Skiles[36:15]
yeah.

Erica Rivera[36:16]
and but then, you know, people read this information because there's just so much out there and and don't always know that like there's there's variables that they need to consider around it too, the advice that they're getting and who

Joanne Skiles[36:25]
Yes. Exactly.

Erica Rivera[36:27]
it's coming from.

Joanne Skiles[36:28]
Yes. I love it. I thank you. So Erica, thank you so much for being here with us today. Getting real, getting a little unplugged at the end.

Erica Rivera[36:37]
Yeah.

Joanne Skiles[36:39]
If there's one thing I want the listeners listening today to walk away from this conversation is a disruption, your layoff, a moment that happens. That is not that's an event. It's not an identity. You don't have to have the whole answer and to figure out in the beginning with you can sit down, you can look at what's going on, you can pivot, you can change.

Joanne Skiles[37:03]
Don't let that be something that defines you.

Erica Rivera[37:07]
Yeah.

Joanne Skiles[37:09]
if you want to connect with Erica, check out her work at ericariveracoaching.com. We'll have it in our description as well. And if you're sitting in that quiet moment of this doesn't fit anymore, that's fine. That that is that just means that you're ready for what's next.

Joanne Skiles[37:28]
So please subscribe to our channel or follow us on Spotify slash Apple Podcasts and everything. Leave a review if you're listening to on Spotify or Apple Podcasts would be really helpful for us. until then, stay authentic, stay focused, and stay unplugged.